Mutualisms all the way down - Many Minds
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- Title
- Mutualisms all the way down
- Description
- <p class="p1"><span class="s1">No one is an island. We all depend on each other in critical, often tangled ways. And when I say "we" and "each other" I don't just mean humans. Yes, we humans rely on other humans. But we also rely on bees, yeasts, dogs, bacteria, and countless other creatures big and small. These interspecies dependencies—or mutualisms, as biologists call them—have deflected and inflected our history. And there's no doubt they will also inflect our future.</span><span class="s1"> </span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">My guest today is <a href= "https://robdunnlab.com/"><span class="s2">Dr. Rob Dunn</span></a>. Rob is Professor of Applied Ecology at North Carolina State University, where he studies the creatures and ecologies all around us—in our homes, in our foods, in our belly buttons. He's the author of eight books, including, most recently, <a href= "https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/rob-dunn/the-call-of-the-honeyguide/9781541605756/?lens=basic-books"> <span class="s2"><em>The Call of the Honeyguide: What Science Tells Us about How to Live Well with the Rest of Life</em></span></a>. This book is the focus of our conversation today.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">Rob and I talk about the idea of mutualism—in which two or more species benefit each other—and how human life is sustained by mutualisms all the way down. We consider how the benefits of mutualism are measured—whether in terms of biological fitness, or longevity, or pleasure. We talk about the best-documented cases of humans collaborating with other species to find honey or hunt fish. We consider how our liaisons with yeasts have shaped human history—and how we might even say that yeasts domesticated us. We linger on our relationships with dogs and cats and the benefits we get from them, some obvious and some less so. Finally, we talk about what it would mean to more fully embrace our mutualisms, what it would mean to create what Rob calls "a less lonely future." Along the way, Rob and I talk about cheese, worms, and maggots; bread, beer, and honey; face mites and armpits; parasites, inquilines, and commensals; what sauerkraut does to our immune systems; honeyguides and dolphins, leopards and house cats; morbid curiosity; and how dogs might give us a kind of access to our subconscious.</span><span class="s1"> </span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">This is a fun one folks. But, before we get to it, a couple of announcements. </span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">First: Applications are now open for the <a href="https://disi.org/apply/"><span class="s2">2026 Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute</span></a>. This is a three-week intensive, transdisciplinary exploration of the different forms of mind and intelligence that animate our world. If you like the themes we talk about on this show, you would almost certainly get a kick out of DISI. More info at <a href= "https://disi.org/"><span class="s2">www.disi.org</span></a>. That's d-i-s-i. org. Review of applications begins pretty soon, so don't dither!</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">Second: We have just put out our first ever <a href= "https://forms.gle/AnJSopuX8Cho8gsb9"><span class="s2"><em>Many Minds</em> audience survey</span></a>! Whether you're longtime superfan or just an occasional listener, we would love to hear from you. Your input will help guide the show as we consider our next chapter.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"> </span><span class= "s1">Alright, friends—without further ado, on to my conversation with Rob Dunn. Enjoy!</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"> </span></p> <p class="p1"><span style= "text-decoration: underline;"><span class="s2"><em>Notes</em></span></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">4:00 – For the fuller story of Menocchio, see <a href= "https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/10626/cheese-and-worms?srsltid=AfmBOoqhxXkuDGZxgbqw8Z-KNrHpAeCkXaUz7GDtrSff20-yZe4ezECX"> <span class="s2"><em>The Cheese and the Worms</em></span></a>, by Carlo Ginzburg.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class
- Publication Date
- 2026-03-11T23:40:00+00:00
- Status
- completed
- Website
- https://manyminds.libsyn.com/mutualisms-all-the-way-down
- Length
- 68:40
- File
- /podcasts/Many Minds/1773272400-5265.mp3
- Size
- 62.2 MB
- Bitrate
- 123-VBR
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- 1
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